Unit 3 Office Hours Questions

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3

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asked 05 Mar '12, 14:06

PeterUdacity's gravatar image

PeterUdacity ♦♦
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1

@ Peter is there any problem with the interpreter??? Nothing happens when we hit run or submit.I just see a message "Working". could u please help. I tried all possible browsers (FF,Safari,GoogleChrome).

(05 Mar '12, 14:13) sudha partha... sudha%20parthasarathy's gravatar image
1

@sudha - Similar reports on the forum indicate that you may have an infinite loop in your code.

(05 Mar '12, 14:17) pmoriarty pmoriarty's gravatar image

Some thing happening with me on Unit3.24

(05 Mar '12, 14:18) Michael Button Michael%20Button's gravatar image

@pmoriarty no...i was just trying to print "hi".

(05 Mar '12, 14:32) sudha partha... sudha%20parthasarathy's gravatar image
7

The code execution back end is overloaded. We are at an order of magnitude traffic than the previous record.

(05 Mar '12, 14:33) PeterUdacity ♦♦ PeterUdacity's gravatar image

congrats on that, Peter.

(06 Mar '12, 20:48) EllenJ EllenJ's gravatar image

So peter,
do u have any plan on tackling dat problem coz u r increasing d number of courses & thus effective number of students will also increase.
I am also having similar problem of bad server response!!!

(08 Mar '12, 09:52) Ujjal Sharmah Ujjal%20Sharmah's gravatar image

48 Answers:

12345next »

59

Could you share with us some current statistics for the CS101 class?
Number of students enrolled, completed units / homework , average grades , etc?

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answered 05 Mar '12, 14:36

k0m0d0's gravatar image

k0m0d0
907115

Yes, statistics!

(05 Mar '12, 15:54) James Viebke James%20Viebke's gravatar image

I second this

(05 Mar '12, 16:21) Nurvx Nurvx's gravatar image

Thirded. It would also be great if we can have a dashboard to track statistics and individual performance against the rest of class (percentile maybe). Does not necessarily have to be a leaderboard format. Also, would be great if you can make achievements/stars visible on a learners public profile - maybe something like Khan Academy? Thanks!!

(06 Mar '12, 15:34) Sagar-2 Sagar-2's gravatar image
5

The number of students enrolled is interesting, but the number of active student (those who are still watching videos, answering questions and doing homework) is more interesting.

(06 Mar '12, 15:49) Mark Brownstein Mark%20Brownstein's gravatar image
2

We hear you (and agree)! We do want to provide these statistics, but don't yet have a good way to do this. It is on our shortlist of things to do, so hopefully we'll be able to provide this fairly soon.

(07 Mar '12, 15:51) UdacityDave ♦♦ UdacityDave's gravatar image

Dave,
atlease u cn tel us the number of students enrolled & actually submitting their assignments!!!

(08 Mar '12, 09:54) Ujjal Sharmah Ujjal%20Sharmah's gravatar image

I'm surprised this is so popular - whilst I can see that one might like to see how ones grades compare to the mean (or median, mode, sd, anova, chi, ... :-)), I can't for the life of me see what anyone would want any of the rest of this. It all seems a bit childish to me.

(08 Mar '12, 14:48) retep retep's gravatar image
19
  • are you going to use python for ALL courses offered by udacity?
    or there might be some courses using different languages like c/c++ or java in the future?

  • please put up units and homeworks at the SAME time.

Thank U

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answered 05 Mar '12, 22:51

blue-1's gravatar image

blue-1
337129

I am interested in learning more PHP programming.

(06 Mar '12, 19:50) Dean McIntyre Dean%20McIntyre's gravatar image

along the lines of this question, I was in fact wondering what language will be used for "CS253 - Web Application Engineering"

(08 Mar '12, 09:38) stivlo stivlo's gravatar image

I would love to see a c programming course.

(08 Mar '12, 21:56) Konrad Konrad's gravatar image
18

Hi,
I think it would be beneficial to all students, and your backend system, if during the office hours you suggested that running a local interpreter has many advantages (speed, debugging tools, speed, did I mention speed?). Then cut and paste your final code into Udacity. I can't imagine your system trying to deal with thousands of programs being run at the same time.

Just my 2 cents worth

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answered 05 Mar '12, 14:41

sparky50's gravatar image

sparky50
1.7k6923

1

I second this. I'm using textmate on OS X and I only paste and test the code on the udacity interpreter when i'm done.

(05 Mar '12, 15:26) Raul Ferreira Raul%20Ferreira's gravatar image
1

Good suggestion, but an important caveat would be that students should always check that their code runs correctly when inserted to Udacity (I've had formatting issues when copy & pasting from IDLE).

(06 Mar '12, 14:58) curiousborg curiousborg's gravatar image
8

Highly recommended. You could also suggest that people use other online interpreters such as: http://people.csail.mit.edu/pgbovine/python/tutor.html#mode=edit if they're facing problems with the Udacity one?

(06 Mar '12, 15:36) Sagar-2 Sagar-2's gravatar image

Wow, that link to the online interpreter is actually INCREDIBLE! Check it out!

(07 Mar '12, 11:42) Bob Whitten Bob%20Whitten's gravatar image

I agree! Others should be aware of this. :)

(07 Mar '12, 23:55) Chamomile Chamomile's gravatar image

Thanks, scubed! I ran my sudoku code through that tool and found a glaring error that, while giving correct answers, was still very wrong. Kudos!

(08 Mar '12, 05:12) BigStoo BigStoo's gravatar image

@PeterUdacity I think it would also be great to add better error-checking features to the browser-based IDE.

(08 Mar '12, 06:58) curiousborg curiousborg's gravatar image
1

I talk about adding such things daily. I don't set the engineering priorities sadly.

(08 Mar '12, 09:36) PeterUdacity ♦♦ PeterUdacity's gravatar image
1

Woah... @scubed, that interpreter is absolutely fantastic!

(08 Mar '12, 13:59) Joshua Herzf... Joshua%20Herzfeldt-Kamprath's gravatar image
14

I only have time for one Udacity class at a time, and both CS253 and CS262 seem very interesting. Will the classes be taught again in the future? If it is the case, how frequently? Will the lecture videos and quizzes stay available after classes are officially finished? I really want to take CS262, but at the same time CS253 with Mr Huffman is an opportunity I would not want to miss.

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answered 06 Mar '12, 14:44

L%20Melan%C3%A7on-1's gravatar image

L Melançon-1
337129

Considering that the two current courses are being offered again I think it's safe to assume that the other courses, too, will be offered again

(06 Mar '12, 22:41) elssar elssar's gravatar image
13

I, and a lot of people (well, maybe it just seems like this because they're vocal on the subject) have made silly mistakes on the homework, for example, in having procedures print something instead of returning something - and vice-versa. Such slips could be averted through always including a test case, i.e., the code required to see a particular output, e.g., taking the blastoff question HW2.4

# Define a procedure, countdown, that takes a
# positive whole number as its input, and prints 
# out a countdown from that number to 1, 
# followed by Blastoff!

def countdown():

Maybe a question like this could be stated more like:

# Define a procedure, countdown, that takes a
# positive whole number as its input, and prints 
# out a countdown from that number to 1, 
# followed by Blastoff!

def countdown():

#E.g.,
#countdown(3)
#produces ... 
#3
#2
#2
#Blastoff!

The student then has to just remove the # on the countdown(3) line to test their output against the given output.

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answered 08 Mar '12, 05:01

retep's gravatar image

retep
2.5k93163

+1 ... That's a very good suggestion to avoid a lot of unnecessary discussions on the forum.

(08 Mar '12, 05:05) Gaurav Kalra Gaurav%20Kalra's gravatar image
1

I agree with this too though it could be more easily avoided by just stating "it should return" or "it should print" instead of generic "it should output" with missleading examples:

some_function(3) => 3, 2, 1

which indicates print within function but actually requires you to print returned values

(08 Mar '12, 10:50) ranko_6 ranko_6's gravatar image

I have also been frustrated by this. For example I missed a quiz because I returned the results with print when it expected a return. I also missed a homework assignment because I didn't think to test a null string as the inputs for the function. Every none null input tested worked normally but a null string for one of the two inputs resulted in an infinite loop. So a list of test conditions the system grades with would be helpful so these type of issues can be avoided.

I have also noticed a lot of forum posts along the lines of I got this wrong but don't know why that having a set of test conditions while doing the assignment could reduce or prevent.

(08 Mar '12, 14:17) kpowney kpowney's gravatar image
11

I'm keen to know what Learning Management System you are using for this elegant display. I have to design some online courses and would like to use this interface. Thanks.

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answered 06 Mar '12, 12:25

Sujata%20Krishna's gravatar image

Sujata Krishna
1.5k41731

As a high school science teacher who is hoping to 'flip' my classroom and create a robust online component (vodcasting with quizzes, which Udacity does so well), I am also very interested in the details of Udacity's production process.

(06 Mar '12, 22:51) Cory Carufel-1 Cory%20Carufel-1's gravatar image

I would also like to have an answer to this. I love the way you folks have managed to put together your videos, and I'd love to know more about the system being used at Udacity

(08 Mar '12, 19:49) Sudeep Mandal-1 Sudeep%20Mandal-1's gravatar image
10

Edit/update: "Loop 3" in Question 5 of the Unit 2 homework was supposed to have a clue referencing the Collatz conjecture, which would let students know that the question is unanswerable (unless someone here is an undiscovered math genius). Unfortunately the clue was in a link which didn't look like a link, so I (and I assume others) didn't think to click it. This has since been corrected. Udacity didn't mean to ask us an unanswerable math problem.


Student "jphme" noticed that "Loop 3" in Question 5 of the Unit 2 homework is based on the Collatz conjecture, which has been unsolved since it was first proposed in 1937. I would sincerely like to know why the homework for a beginner programming class includes a question that the finest minds in mathematics have thus far been unable to answer.

It's possible that someone here can solve it (and Udacity will be credited with finding an undiscovered genius), but it seems unlikely. For those of us (I'll assume all) who couldn't find an answer, what were we supposed to have learned from the attempt?

Personally what I learned is that next time I struggle with a question, perhaps I should assume that there is no answer, and just give up.

Many of us are making time for these courses between other responsibilities. I'm willing to stay up late and be tired at work the next day in order to learn something new. I'm not willing to do so when my attempt to find a solution is doomed from the start. And I didn't see anything in the question that taught a new problem-solving technique.

As you've probably noticed, many people are complaining that the courses and homework are too hard. I don't mind "hard." But famous unsolved problems in mathematics, not disclosed as such? REALLY?

The whole idea of a course is that it presents material in an orderly way, with a beginning and an end. Generally part of this structured format is homework questions with clear answers. If you're going to present questions without answers, please disclose this upfront.

Lest you think I just don't like studying, I'm speaking as someone with a doctorate in another field.

Please consider how long students are spending on each question, sometimes to the detriment of other obligations and sleep.

Thank you.

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answered 05 Mar '12, 21:48

Daffodil's gravatar image

Daffodil
205127

edited 08 Mar '12, 09:35

6

Actually, that seems rather brilliant to me.

If you let someone have the mindset that they probably won't be able to solve a puzzle, they'll be far less likely to solve it.

Alternatively, present a puzzle to a small army of learners - you have a decent chance. Even if it takes some collaboration.

(05 Mar '12, 21:52) James Viebke James%20Viebke's gravatar image
1

James: Yes, I'm familiar with the story of "The Unsolvable Math Problem" ( http://www.snopes.com/college/homework/unsolvable.asp ) and it occurred to me that Udacity might deliberately be trying to recreate this.

I don't think it's brilliant though; I think it's selfish. The original story was an accident. That's very different from giving "a small army of learners" a problem that -- in all likelihood -- none will be able to solve. We're talking a lot of man-hours. The students' goal is to learn Python. And Udacity's goal is -- well, it's not quite clear yet -- maybe Udacity's founders/funders have some business interest that would be helped by a solution to the Collatz conjecture? Or they want to find the smartest person here in order to hire them? That would be fine if they disclosed it. But by what right are they obtaining thousands of man-hours to further unknown goals that the students never agreed to?

As I said, if the question was intended to help students learn Python, I'm fine with it, and would appreciate an explanation of what exactly I'm supposed to have learned. Otherwise the instructors should have clearly disclosed that the question is thus far unanswerable.

(05 Mar '12, 22:10) Daffodil Daffodil's gravatar image
9

There's a hint in the question that points you to a XKCD comic on the problem. From there a Wikipedia search should give you the answer.

(05 Mar '12, 22:16) PeterUdacity ♦♦ PeterUdacity's gravatar image

@daffodil Actually, that's just the kind of thing I was thinking might possibly happen. With thousands of students, who knows?

(05 Mar '12, 22:18) James Viebke James%20Viebke's gravatar image

Peter: Sorry, where? I just looked at this section again, and don't see anything about an XKCD comic. The "Supplementary Material" tab is blank. The "Instructor Comments" tab shows the loop text and has one "hint": "0 is not a positive integer." I'm looking at this page: http://www.udacity.com/view#Course/cs101/CourseRev/feb2012/Unit/137001/Nugget/149001

(05 Mar '12, 22:24) Daffodil Daffodil's gravatar image

I think you spent a lot of time because you didn't read well the question. The mean point of the problem was to learn aboute infinte loops, therefore you have to choose between the three choices; always finishes, sometimes run forever and unknown(to anyone). They aren't asking you to solve the UNSOLVABLE "Collatz conjecture", just to answer the question.
Don´t think to big when the solution is small.
Regards.

(05 Mar '12, 22:29) Hans Kulenka... Hans%20Kulenkampff's gravatar image

Nilrem: It asks you to choose whether the loop 1) always finishes, 2) sometimes runs forever, or 3) [is] unknown to anyone. Anyone trying to rule out 1 or 2 (as I spent way too long doing) needs to solve the Collatz conjecture (which I'm pretty sure I'll never be able to do).

(05 Mar '12, 22:43) Daffodil Daffodil's gravatar image

The hint is now right under "Loop 3" in Question 5.

(05 Mar '12, 22:50) Keith Evans Keith%20Evans's gravatar image
1

I can see how that was confusing. The Hint was actually a link you could click. The note about 0 not being a positive integer was a separate matter. Sorry about that! I can see why that was frustrating.

(05 Mar '12, 23:00) PeterUdacity ♦♦ PeterUdacity's gravatar image

KeithE: Where? This is what I'm seeing (2 images): http://imgur.com/wwUBT,9uMDn#0

(P.S. and this is after refreshing the page)

(05 Mar '12, 23:03) Daffodil Daffodil's gravatar image

He's just saying that if you click on the word hint it'll take you to the comic.

(05 Mar '12, 23:06) PeterUdacity ♦♦ PeterUdacity's gravatar image
2

Peter: Oh! I had no idea that was a link. I thought it was a heading for "0 is not a positive integer." Cool comic. Yeah, that would have helped a lot. I'm curious how many people thought to click on the word "hint" when it's not obvious that it's a link (as it's not underlined). I guess we'll see, based on how many people upvote my original question.

So now I'll modify my request: if you're going to put an important hint in a link, please make sure it's really obvious that it's a link! Because I'm getting dangerously near that point where my friends stop calling to see if I want to hang out.

(05 Mar '12, 23:16) Daffodil Daffodil's gravatar image
1

Sorry about that! It originally just had the Hint there and then I added the note about 0. I'll definitely be more careful next time.

(05 Mar '12, 23:20) PeterUdacity ♦♦ PeterUdacity's gravatar image
1

Peter: OK, cool. Thanks. I'm feeling better now. :-)

(05 Mar '12, 23:23) Daffodil Daffodil's gravatar image
1

Houston, is there a problem?

(06 Mar '12, 13:31) Tom Vandenbosch Tom%20Vandenbosch's gravatar image
1

I have had a few times unsolvable homework problems in college due to errors from my professor. Not all problems in the real world are solvable. Maybe some students here can learn about "triage" of homework problems: I did this often in college.

(06 Mar '12, 13:38) David Taglia... David%20Tagliaferri's gravatar image

I agree with Daffodil. It is slightly frustrating to be holding my eyelids open while trying to figure out an unconstructive problem. Overall though, YOU GUYS ARE DOING A GREAT JOB AND I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY. Thank you.

(06 Mar '12, 22:24) joseph gerstel joseph%20gerstel's gravatar image

I just threw the loop into python and played with it without knowing it was a fancy math conjecture. The problem wasn't that bad.

The real lesson to learn from this question is, when given unfamiliar code, try putting that code into a compiler and playing with it to figure out how the code behaves.

(06 Mar '12, 22:58) Andrew I You... Andrew%20I%20Young-3's gravatar image
2

Also, the hint was added later, I believe. And while there was an announcement saying that 2.6 had updated info, there was no mention that there was new hints on 2.5... thus I never checked that one for new info after I'd answered it and moved on.

(08 Mar '12, 04:54) Michael Miller Michael%20Miller's gravatar image

@Daffodil, that question did not ask anybody to solve a problem that the the finest minds in mathematics have been unable to. In fact the the question is not mathematical in nature at all; it only takes a moment to research and find that nobody knows whether that loop would finish for every value of n.

(08 Mar '12, 08:40) curiousborg curiousborg's gravatar image

curiousborg: "it only takes a moment to research . . ." Yes, once you see the clue, which was not apparent when the question was first posted. Originally it did indeed ask people to solve the Collatz conjecture (without making any obvious reference to it).

(08 Mar '12, 09:29) Daffodil Daffodil's gravatar image
1

Was that Hint there all week? or was it added later on?

(08 Mar '12, 09:46) Smiles Smiles's gravatar image
1

Adding hints later on in the week gives unfair advantage to those who leave the homework until closer to the deadline.

(08 Mar '12, 10:46) Darran Darran's gravatar image
1

lincthra- me too. I felt sort of cheated that I wasn't told there was a hint.

(08 Mar '12, 21:59) CAS CAS's gravatar image
showing 10 of 24 show 14 more comments

Could we have a "live" IRC chat or videoconferencing where people can ask questions in person?

Currently, the recorded videos work well, but only once would be nice as a tryout one of the coming weeks.

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answered 05 Mar '12, 14:49

Tom%20Vandenbosch's gravatar image

Tom Vandenbosch
6.7k3982132

3

A Google+ hangout could work...

(05 Mar '12, 15:53) Susan Straub Susan%20Straub's gravatar image

With a maximum of 10 participants? We'll only need 9,000 hangouts. :D

(05 Mar '12, 15:56) James Viebke James%20Viebke's gravatar image
3

You could get the hangout broadcasted live on Youtube, with people asking questions via IRC.

By the way, have you tried asking for in-person lessons on IRC? I'm sure some people would be willing to explain a few things.

(05 Mar '12, 16:00) Anton Golov ♦ Anton%20Golov's gravatar image

Thank you for trying it out today through a Google+ hangout. How did it go?

(09 Mar '12, 01:39) Tom Vandenbosch Tom%20Vandenbosch's gravatar image

I found the Python Reference very useful in Unit 1 but it was missing in Unit 2. Udacity Dave posted that he planned to include it in future units but I notice it is also missing in Unit 3. Any chance we will have it for Unit 3? And will you post one for Unit 2 also? I am going to print these out and then use them as a reference.

Sorry if I seem pesky about this but it is just a sign of how useful I found it.

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answered 05 Mar '12, 23:14

CAS's gravatar image

CAS
207128

edited 05 Mar '12, 23:14

I really liked the reference in Unit 1 also..

(05 Mar '12, 23:37) Stephen A. D... Stephen%20A.%20Dubrick's gravatar image

if you go to the python site there is a huge list of references that can be helpfull if you are stuck on a subject

(06 Mar '12, 14:09) Eric Proulx Eric%20Proulx's gravatar image

I would also love a reference section for the other units beyond Unit 1.

(06 Mar '12, 21:20) cswain cswain's gravatar image

I found that included reference and vocabulary to be very handy in keeping track of what we've covered so far. Like I've said, as a software engineer, I know how I would solve a lot of these questions using the full language. But I'm getting MUCH more enjoyment and knowledge out of this class by limiting my solutions to only the things we've covered. When put into that context, a lot of these questions are quite clever and really make you think.

(07 Mar '12, 21:37) Shawn Oden Shawn%20Oden's gravatar image

Eric-I have gone to the Python site but the materials were not that useful since they use language that requires more knowlwdge than just a beginning student without any CS background would have.

(08 Mar '12, 21:56) CAS CAS's gravatar image

Are "gold star" homework questions weighted differently than regular questions?

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answered 07 Mar '12, 10:03

Brian%20Yee's gravatar image

Brian Yee
2.4k21236

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Asked: 05 Mar '12, 14:06

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Last updated: 12 Mar '12, 20:08