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Hi, Just my 2 cents worth 1
I second this. I'm using textmate on OS X and I only paste and test the code on the udacity interpreter when i'm done. 1
Good suggestion, but an important caveat would be that students should always check that their code runs correctly when inserted to Udacity (I've had formatting issues when copy & pasting from IDLE). 8
Highly recommended. You could also suggest that people use other online interpreters such as: http://people.csail.mit.edu/pgbovine/python/tutor.html#mode=edit if they're facing problems with the Udacity one? Wow, that link to the online interpreter is actually INCREDIBLE! Check it out! I agree! Others should be aware of this. :) Thanks, scubed! I ran my sudoku code through that tool and found a glaring error that, while giving correct answers, was still very wrong. Kudos! @PeterUdacity I think it would also be great to add better error-checking features to the browser-based IDE. 1
I talk about adding such things daily. I don't set the engineering priorities sadly. |
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Edit/update: "Loop 3" in Question 5 of the Unit 2 homework was supposed to have a clue referencing the Collatz conjecture, which would let students know that the question is unanswerable (unless someone here is an undiscovered math genius). Unfortunately the clue was in a link which didn't look like a link, so I (and I assume others) didn't think to click it. This has since been corrected. Udacity didn't mean to ask us an unanswerable math problem. Student "jphme" noticed that "Loop 3" in Question 5 of the Unit 2 homework is based on the Collatz conjecture, which has been unsolved since it was first proposed in 1937. I would sincerely like to know why the homework for a beginner programming class includes a question that the finest minds in mathematics have thus far been unable to answer. It's possible that someone here can solve it (and Udacity will be credited with finding an undiscovered genius), but it seems unlikely. For those of us (I'll assume all) who couldn't find an answer, what were we supposed to have learned from the attempt? Personally what I learned is that next time I struggle with a question, perhaps I should assume that there is no answer, and just give up. Many of us are making time for these courses between other responsibilities. I'm willing to stay up late and be tired at work the next day in order to learn something new. I'm not willing to do so when my attempt to find a solution is doomed from the start. And I didn't see anything in the question that taught a new problem-solving technique. As you've probably noticed, many people are complaining that the courses and homework are too hard. I don't mind "hard." But famous unsolved problems in mathematics, not disclosed as such? REALLY? The whole idea of a course is that it presents material in an orderly way, with a beginning and an end. Generally part of this structured format is homework questions with clear answers. If you're going to present questions without answers, please disclose this upfront. Lest you think I just don't like studying, I'm speaking as someone with a doctorate in another field. Please consider how long students are spending on each question, sometimes to the detriment of other obligations and sleep. Thank you. 6
Actually, that seems rather brilliant to me. If you let someone have the mindset that they probably won't be able to solve a puzzle, they'll be far less likely to solve it. Alternatively, present a puzzle to a small army of learners - you have a decent chance. Even if it takes some collaboration. 1
James: Yes, I'm familiar with the story of "The Unsolvable Math Problem" ( http://www.snopes.com/college/homework/unsolvable.asp ) and it occurred to me that Udacity might deliberately be trying to recreate this. I don't think it's brilliant though; I think it's selfish. The original story was an accident. That's very different from giving "a small army of learners" a problem that -- in all likelihood -- none will be able to solve. We're talking a lot of man-hours. The students' goal is to learn Python. And Udacity's goal is -- well, it's not quite clear yet -- maybe Udacity's founders/funders have some business interest that would be helped by a solution to the Collatz conjecture? Or they want to find the smartest person here in order to hire them? That would be fine if they disclosed it. But by what right are they obtaining thousands of man-hours to further unknown goals that the students never agreed to? As I said, if the question was intended to help students learn Python, I'm fine with it, and would appreciate an explanation of what exactly I'm supposed to have learned. Otherwise the instructors should have clearly disclosed that the question is thus far unanswerable. 9
There's a hint in the question that points you to a XKCD comic on the problem. From there a Wikipedia search should give you the answer. @daffodil Actually, that's just the kind of thing I was thinking might possibly happen. With thousands of students, who knows? Peter: Sorry, where? I just looked at this section again, and don't see anything about an XKCD comic. The "Supplementary Material" tab is blank. The "Instructor Comments" tab shows the loop text and has one "hint": "0 is not a positive integer." I'm looking at this page: http://www.udacity.com/view#Course/cs101/CourseRev/feb2012/Unit/137001/Nugget/149001 I think you spent a lot of time because you didn't read well the question. The mean point of the problem was to learn aboute infinte loops, therefore you have to choose between the three choices; always finishes, sometimes run forever and unknown(to anyone). They aren't asking you to solve the UNSOLVABLE "Collatz conjecture", just to answer the question. Nilrem: It asks you to choose whether the loop 1) always finishes, 2) sometimes runs forever, or 3) [is] unknown to anyone. Anyone trying to rule out 1 or 2 (as I spent way too long doing) needs to solve the Collatz conjecture (which I'm pretty sure I'll never be able to do). The hint is now right under "Loop 3" in Question 5. 1
I can see how that was confusing. The Hint was actually a link you could click. The note about 0 not being a positive integer was a separate matter. Sorry about that! I can see why that was frustrating. KeithE: Where? This is what I'm seeing (2 images): http://imgur.com/wwUBT,9uMDn#0 (P.S. and this is after refreshing the page) He's just saying that if you click on the word hint it'll take you to the comic. 2
Peter: Oh! I had no idea that was a link. I thought it was a heading for "0 is not a positive integer." Cool comic. Yeah, that would have helped a lot. I'm curious how many people thought to click on the word "hint" when it's not obvious that it's a link (as it's not underlined). I guess we'll see, based on how many people upvote my original question. So now I'll modify my request: if you're going to put an important hint in a link, please make sure it's really obvious that it's a link! Because I'm getting dangerously near that point where my friends stop calling to see if I want to hang out. 1
Sorry about that! It originally just had the Hint there and then I added the note about 0. I'll definitely be more careful next time. 1
I have had a few times unsolvable homework problems in college due to errors from my professor. Not all problems in the real world are solvable. Maybe some students here can learn about "triage" of homework problems: I did this often in college. I agree with Daffodil. It is slightly frustrating to be holding my eyelids open while trying to figure out an unconstructive problem. Overall though, YOU GUYS ARE DOING A GREAT JOB AND I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY. Thank you. I just threw the loop into python and played with it without knowing it was a fancy math conjecture. The problem wasn't that bad. The real lesson to learn from this question is, when given unfamiliar code, try putting that code into a compiler and playing with it to figure out how the code behaves. 2
Also, the hint was added later, I believe. And while there was an announcement saying that 2.6 had updated info, there was no mention that there was new hints on 2.5... thus I never checked that one for new info after I'd answered it and moved on. @Daffodil, that question did not ask anybody to solve a problem that the the finest minds in mathematics have been unable to. In fact the the question is not mathematical in nature at all; it only takes a moment to research and find that nobody knows whether that loop would finish for every value of n. curiousborg: "it only takes a moment to research . . ." Yes, once you see the clue, which was not apparent when the question was first posted. Originally it did indeed ask people to solve the Collatz conjecture (without making any obvious reference to it). 1
Adding hints later on in the week gives unfair advantage to those who leave the homework until closer to the deadline. 1
lincthra- me too. I felt sort of cheated that I wasn't told there was a hint.
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@ Peter is there any problem with the interpreter??? Nothing happens when we hit run or submit.I just see a message "Working". could u please help. I tried all possible browsers (FF,Safari,GoogleChrome).
@sudha - Similar reports on the forum indicate that you may have an infinite loop in your code.
Some thing happening with me on Unit3.24
@pmoriarty no...i was just trying to print "hi".
The code execution back end is overloaded. We are at an order of magnitude traffic than the previous record.
congrats on that, Peter.
So peter,
do u have any plan on tackling dat problem coz u r increasing d number of courses & thus effective number of students will also increase.
I am also having similar problem of bad server response!!!